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tv   The Stream 2017 Ep 157  Al Jazeera  October 3, 2017 7:32am-8:01am AST

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the regional president has demanded the removal of over ten thousand spanish police who were sent there in the lead up to the referendum iran has deployed dozens of tanks along its border with iraq for thomas kurdish region following last week's secession referendum there the deployment as part of a joint military drill with iraqi armed forces the referendum was held in the finance of the government in baghdad as well as neighboring iran and turkey the us government says that progress is being made in rehabilitating puerto rico almost three weeks after the island was hit by hurricane maria large parts of the u.s. territory are still without running water or electricity u.s. president donald trump is due to visit on tuesday. the u.s. singer tongue petty has died after suffering a heart attack because he was taken to hospital after being found unresponsive at his home in malibu. the musician rose to fame in the one nine hundred seventy s. with his group tom petty and the heartbreakers he had a hugely successful so their career and sold more than eighty million records
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worldwide tom petty was sixty six. now and i was there up it's the stream. al jazeera is a very important source of information for many people around the world when all the cameras are gone i'm still here go into areas that nobody else is going to talk to people that nobody else is talking to and bringing that story to the forefront. i am today a muslim intellectual part of the ramadan joins the stream a prominent scholar shares his views on islam place in the world and what he calls the silent revolution. so a psychedelic philosopher and author tariq ramadan has had his share of controversy
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his supporters say he has been working for decades to bridge the gap between european muslims and secular society his critics accuse him of holding messages to give you sound having a hidden agenda to islamicize europe which he denies he joins us now from new york professor of contemporary islamic studies at the university of oxford professor thought of come up on welcome back to the stream it's a pleasure to have you here today thank you for inviting me so i'll start this part of the conversation with your latest book introduction to asylum holding it here and in it you write in the very first sentence hardly a day goes by without some mention of islam and yet many people if pressed will admit that they know very little about the religion of one quarter of the human race why was it so necessary do you think for this book to come out now in fact you know my publisher called me and saying we were looking for an introduction to islam and they didn't find something which was suitable for what's on so they asked me to
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write something and it took me thirty years just to good to dissent to try to say something about islam which is once again. responding to the criticism of the controversy is because ninety nine percent of the time when we come on media is to say what islam is not is not violence is not discrimination but to come with a simple introduction simple without being simplistic about islam and trying to understand the terminology understand the concepts understanding the world view that is muslims have understanding the principles the history and also the diversity within this is essential and i am trying in this book to deal with all the controversial issues but not in the way the media are covering them by asking the first questions but within this introduction by saying ok this is the world view and we have to deal with some of the challenges in muslim majority countries as well as in the west for example so thirty years though of
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scholarship and research how do you then condense that into this book what did you leave out and what did you think what's most important to me and here i think what was really important is just to get a sense that when you deal with is a universe of reference when you do islam you have to understand the spirituality on the you have to understand the philosophy and you have to understand the principles and the history but you also have as muslims today to deal with the challenges of our time and to be to address some of the issues our fellow citizens in the west but not only in the west by darwin muslim majority countries is exactly the same that we need to tackle some issues and for example when it comes to violence to say. the limits of accept the diversity within islam and people who are killing innocent people are in fact behaving against the islamic principles so i think that i'm trying to tackle these as well as some social issues when it comes for example in the way we have to deal was you know equality between gender
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and who women within the society i'm just trying to be honest with the. and just that we are facing and also this book is for two audiences i'm talking to muslims by telling them look you have to know you history and your tradition then you have to deal with some of the controversial issues but i'm also talking to people out of face eighty's that gnostics jews christians people who have nothing to do is islam but there are leaving with muslims they should also get a sense of what is and what the muslims stand for so talking about how you are so right to non muslims and i want to take a look at this tweet we got from anthony in new zealand here we asked people how they went about islam if they're not muslim and he says he learned about islam from p.b.c. documentary and went to pedia and from the news of over a decade and he also mentions the movie the message which is from the one nine
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hundred seventy s. what do you hope someone like anthony in new zealand gets from this book what is the overall effect that you're hoping for that exactly the point you are making the point you we can't now deal with to realistic society or live within pluralistic society having very superficial knowledge so what we have as a responsibility what responsibility i have as a muslim scholar is also to provide a better understanding by talking to my fellow citizens the language again understand so translating concepts and notions from arabic to english trying to get a sense of what are the common values that we have and the differences that we may face in our daily life but also to get a sense of islam is not an alien religion it's not me it's a western religion and you have to get it you're going to deal with your fellow citizens and in fact we have to build the future together so it's not only need to get a sense of who are the muslims but also what are we going to build together what e's
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our common rests what are our common responsibilities when it comes to the future and this is critical and i think that it's a call for more knowledge mo. commitment to some of the principles and something which should be stopped with the victim mentality all of us we have to stop with the victim mentality yet to come and say what are our responsibilities to do to make this world. better to change the world for the better so i want to just bring into current events now talk about things that are in the news and we'll start with a travel ban in the u.s. travel ban from the u.s. take a look at this tweet from nor in charge she's with amnesty international she says turning the muslim ban into a travel ban won't fool us and will still cause thousands of people to live and travel in fear so i want to ask you this because you were personally deny muses to the united states between two thousand and four and two thousand and ten can you talk about what in fact this new policy putting
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a sign up and sort of actively saying to people from these countries we don't want you here in the u.s. right now what are factors that exclusion have yes and just let me says something about what is happening today in las vegas and to express our condolences and so to the family of the victims and puerto rico and you know i think that this is also a sense of belonging to our societies to express the listens and to the families and the victims that's something which is important knowing also that sometimes and this is the starting point of our discussion we should not going to use between the government and our fellow citizens so the government and it was it happened you know with under the patriot act it happened to me for six years we had no reason except that they had political positions being very critical towards the the american government and then we had now trump and he's a ministration expressing something which is eet ees. and it's targeting some of
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the countries only me and you know venezuela and other just to make it not something which is targeting the muslims we all know that is targeting the muslims and some muslims on needs are not going. any band from the gulf states because this is where the money is coming this is why we are sending our weapons so that's the point the point is who are you banning and why are you doing this expressing the sense that islam is alien to the religion that anyone who is coming from muslim majority countries is suspicious and it happened to me to the point that at the end it's the obama administration and hillary clinton who said publicly there is nothing preventing tariq ramadan from coming so this is just you know spreading fear and nurturing this fear and the future of our country if we good that way it's going to be very very dangerous because these people and the trans populism in fact is based in spreading fear and saying i'm going to protect the country from. these muslims that are in fact a threat to our future no the threat to our future is people like him and people on
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the. within the political spectrum who are nurturing fear nurturing mistrust among the citizens and not helping us to get this peace which is so important for us today between black and white people between the rich and the poor an understanding that the future of our country cannot be by banning people and telling the people you have to show us that you are true citizens to the country by by. by not speaking out by being silent that's not the future if i am an american citizen if i'm a european citizen i should be critically loyal to my country and what does it mean if my government is right i'm going to support but when my government is wrong i'm going to be critical muslims are not that's not the point the point of citizenship is not your religion the point of citizenship is an ethics as if you can chip based on principle so i think that what is coming now is these policies that are banning the people and targeting the very dangerous professor of the one you mentioned
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leaders who attempt to show that it's an alien in their lands i want to show a little clip a leader who some say tried to do the opposite of that this is french president emanuel micron in august this is his first major foreign policy speech and this is what inside. as you here i think you're eighty new can see where you. feel a little quality always miss them east leopoldine apriority the not a pretty good one here we should probably not always miss them east asia. long pro are the set it. got me on a surprise that she couldn't you. just couldn't view from intellectual or for fundamentalistic pretty myself and use them. and the crown goes on to say and i'm paraphrasing here we mustn't be naive and we mustn't be over afraid of islam we mustn't confuse islamists and islam and we mustn't look at the millions of muslims
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that live in europe with suspicion and so some would say there's a bit of a complex thing message there and other say he's trying to spark parts apart semantics what's your take on it and you know yeah i think you are some are summarizing the point it's exactly the conflicting messages that he's sending he's right on one thing that the muslims cannot keep on saying it has nothing to do and these people who are killing. and book or her are for example have nothing to do with it's not we can't say this these muslims and i'm not going to put them outside islam that that theory position by putting people outside his name is wrong and saying that yes they rely on verses of the war on but it's a distorted understanding it's a wrong understanding it's outside the accepted diversity of muslims and this is what i'm explaining in the book we have to be very clear by taking clear stance and this is what i have been doing for thirty years much before even two thousand and one was what was happening in muslim majority countries we have to do the job now
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what he is saying is it is in fact he's policy in france and his policy of brood is not helping this message to be clear because he wants us to understand we have to condemn violent extremists but what about the french policy going to bombard the people the civilians in syria oh in iraq all you need and telling us this has nothing to do is what they are doing to us in france while the people are saying you kill we're going to kill you in france of course we have to condemn violence but we also have to condemn the french policy and the french politics supporting dictatorships outside supporting some of you know previous leader was supporting then i'd internees the other were supporting that he'd welcome khadafi in paris and all of a sudden he's a terrorist he's the bad guy. and france is playing and the eye has to write the whole thing that's going to be the wrong blas what ease now the discourse about
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this from us is making the french muslim second class citizen by do we suspect that the state of emergency stalled getting muslims in the way in an incident and way and i think that this is where we have to say you are right by telling us we have to be clear on why not extremist what about your foreign policy what about your domestic policy so on that question of domestic policy towards muslims and western countries we have this tweet here from nestle hon listen to it she says western muslims aren't part of mainstream society and she says because my daughter suffered harassment in australian schools for being the only muslim student to bring it to europe i want you to take a listen to this video comment we got from she's a ph d. research researcher in france. a recent survey conducted by the vienna based agency for fundamental rights found that a large majority of european muslims feel deeply connected to the country's even
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and trust building institutions in spite of widespread discrimination for example with respect to france it was shown that muslims born and raised there feel a deep connection to their country given that what would it take for you being muslims to one day be fully accepted as peaceful citizens by their fellow men and women oh really never be enough despite how hard they try to assimilate and prove their religions so professor ramadan she says would it ever be enough and why why do you think that there is this disconnect between how european muslims feel often feel in their countries and citizens and the way their fellow citizens see them that that's the point and i think that what you just showed this is a critical message we need to be quite clear on this what is said by the political and the media coverage of the muslims of the european muslims and by the way
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exactly the same as the american muslim because what we have been experiencing in europe it's coming now to the to to to the united states of america and even to canada and we have to be clear here that this narrative that or integration is failing the muslims don't feel that they are part of the society they are alien to the this is simply not right this is not the experience of western muslims in north african countries as well as in european countries that's not the truth they belong to the society they are more and more visible so there is a disconnect years between what is happening at the grassroots level at the local level within the society and the narrative saying and suspecting the muslim because we need to get it right this. paula see that this narrative coming from politicians is just shifting the political discussion because they are not able to deal with unemployment they are not able to deal with discrimination and seek about the
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ization they don't know how to deal with the social problems so their needs sizing them. they are saying it's you because you are muslims and in fact the muslims and the west and muslims and the european muslims are now having this feeling that they belong to the country so we are in the past integration phase where now the most important thing is for the muslims not to be on the defensive to be assertive not to speak about integration to speak about their contribution the added value that they have within the society and this is what facts and figures are showing it's far from the narrative coming from the politicians and the media and we need to understand it will take time but we are going to succeed on this i'm very optimistic about this it's going to work so i guess we're going i don't know what i deem your optimism but i do want to bring up two points here and get your thoughts on them so this is from the u.n. human rights is via twitter france draft counter terrorism law may have discriminatory repercussions especially for muslims and they go on in
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a statement this is dated september twenty seventh to talk about that draft law that really the emergency powers that you mentioned a little bit earlier that might intend on the rights of people in the country and particularly muslims so that's on one hand on the other hand you had this headline just recently came out this is the atlantic what went wrong with france's the radicalization program now we've heard of these quote unquote the radicalization programs in other countries not just france the u.k. has one as well what do you make of programs like this that are the purported aim is to make sure that young muslims do not join groups like myself what do you make of their success rates look this is something which is very important and we have to talk about the security. policy is the state of emergency by the way we are talking about france but as you said it's exactly the same with preventing the u.k. it's the same way as the patriot act and what we have for example in france now
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it's exactly what we had before in the states which is we go from the state of emergency to patriot act to normalizing within the legal framework laws and the ways of dealing with security and monitoring the people which is normalizing the state where we are losing our freedom so this is exactly what is happening in france now we are there they are saying oh we are going to stop the state of emergency but if you look at their policy there normalizing through the legal system things that you can monitor or you can spy and you even asking muslims to do the job for the state within the community and prevent is exactly the same and what is happening in the states is exactly the same so in the name of this war. on terror or this way of dealing with radicalization we are losing our freedom and what i'm saying to my fellow citizens in the states as well as in europe be careful because you might think that it's only targeting the muslims but that the and it's
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all of us we are all citizens losing our rights and our dignity in the way we are monitored by the state spreading fear and telling us you know what you are scared we are going to protect you from being threatened by money touring you and this is not only about islam this is one second which is also something which is very important is all this business about radicalization and we was involved with the british government by saying something let us talk about radicalization what do you mean by radicalization that they were first believers and practicing muslims and then they step by step they became radicalized that's not the truth facts and figures are showing that the great majority of the people who went to the us are going to a very quick shift to the point that. nice for example they were saying oh it was an overnight radicalization very quick what's that what are we talking about let us be serious about the fact that many of these people have nothing to do with
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religion they are not practicing muslims and they are dealing with something which is different from history ssion a sense of alienation and also sometimes instrumental eyes asian. brain watch on internet let us be serious about this and it's got going to work like this and i would add one point which is essential to all the governments to the u.s. government as well as all the european governments they should understand that the muslim citizens are part of the solution they are not the problem if we suspect and we spread around that all the muslim citizens are suspected citizens it's not going to work we need to get it right we are all against violent extremists but let us be part of the solution and not being perceived as easy and to the society source and only source of the problem and then we also have to connect this to the foreign policies because it's not going to work we are not isolated and we are not isolated
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countries so professor ahmed i mean a lot of ground to cover and we are heading towards the end of the program i want to make sure our community has questions get answered so to change to the topic of religious doctrine take a listen to this question we got from the causes of religious educator in the united states. sometimes it seems that the fear of assimilation has impeded islamic scholars from developing their ethical thinking in advancing issues specifically with respect to slavery in the past and now contemporarily gender issues so scholars of art and thought about keeping tradition as the sole way to kind of maintain the purity of the religion and in a sense protected from innovations themes that are repeated alive in islamic jurisprudence and texts we read about islam but this brings up the myth of some pure islam that existed in some past and that we're trying to retrieve is it really accurate to think of islam is something pure and from the past or is islam a dynamic evolving and relevant religion and faith that has meaning in any time
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and in any space so professor ramadan do you see islam as a dynamic religion and if so yes and i think what she's saying is completely right and i think that yes we have immutable principles we have immutable rituals we're not going to change this we are fasting we are praying this is not going to change but the way we have to deal with the surrounding culture and the way we have to deal was the new status and the new challenges means that there is no face fullness without evolution and i keep on repeating islam does not reform but the muslim minds need and she was talking about gender she was talking about equality and she is even i would add to this trichet beauty we need to have you know arts artistic and statics all this is so important and we have to move on so the scholars who think that we are going to protect by leading and stressing only on the rules and relying on the rules this is not going to work the contribution is to be an
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intellectual cultural social artistic contribution and this is where the scholars as well as by the way average muslims would be involved in the process so as part of that i pulled up this headline here and this is. several months ago target ramadan there is a silent revolution underway what do you mean by that and i think that is exactly what we are witnessing today because you know we are talking as if the muslims are not moving over the last thirty years. of the muslim narrative in the west and by the way also in most majority countries and just coming back from african countries you have exactly the same you have men and women now trying to be faithful to their religion so you wouldn't you know accept for example as a muslim believer just to make. a new form and the know for unlawful we have principles and we have a frame but now what we witnessing on the ground look around you look in the united states of america the new generation of men and women now they are speaking out
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this speak the language of the country they get the culture and now they want to be face full to their religion at the same time to be fully american and fully europeans and it succeeded and it will succeed is the future so i would say that you're right i have to question my optimism but my optimism is based on facts and figures i have been working on the field for the last thirty five years and i can tell you what we were saying and thirty five years ago is that what we are seeing now and we have now leaders and new generations of people coming and we have to trust them and we have to hope that with their fellow citizens they will be able to contribute for a better future well professor thought a grandmother and we're going to take that optimism with us as we show that all the time we have for right now the book is going for duction to islam and i will give the last word to our community down so our communities and there's the ask about the fact that. we got a comment from you tube just
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a reminder live on you tube now such an important book to be released when there is so much confusion and lack of understanding thank you to our community for joining us and thank you to professor thought a kind of on time. the
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nativist news as it breaks many of the people here came to this camp with injuries and illnesses already with detailed coverage of the border between china and north korea stretches for more than fourteen hundred kilometers unlike the demilitarized zone the on his spirit here is very relaxed from around the world the water that comes in the trucks relist water from the shallow holes in the is full of sediment and of course the high risk of disease. in the harsh times era when news coverage consists of a punk jihad line a five second sound bite and an easy solution. dellums people from home says challenge the status quo to expose double standards and debate the contradictions join me many on sunday for a new season of the show the frank. and up front. about this time i'll just hear of .
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jews iran. where every. fifty nine people dead more than five hundred injured in las vegas and the worst mass shooting in u.s. history.
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hello i'm adrian for again this is live from doha also coming up catalunya calls for international mediation in the secession standoff with madrid.


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